Special — Superhuman Part II - Designing Software to Feel Like a Game

Metadata

• Author: Acquired
• Full Title: Special — Superhuman Part II - Designing Software to Feel Like a Game
• URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/9e3bf147-8252-43e5-bdfb-4f2e3ff0b210

Highlights

Podcast - Episode 2 - Raoul and Gabriel Summary: raoul. Lake: What is a game? There are no fewer than hone, we get here, like eight or nine definitions on wicopedia. From your perspective, how do you think about it? I like to use a definition that i came across in a book that is, by the way, the art of game design by shell. Such a cool topic to be talking about. We’ve gone deep on gaming history in and of its own so often here on acquired,. i thought a good jumping off point before we get into your specific principles that use it superhuman is let’s togavelli, what is a games? It sounds like a simple question, sometimes hard to Transcript: Speaker 2 Som i appreciate the insight, and i can definitely second that on gabriel as a host. She’s just spectacular. I can also appreciate, we all sort of know at lassian as this company that facilitates amazing team work. And on your show, you by no means hit us over the head with that. You just tell an amazing story of team work, and then trust that the audience is smart to find their way to great atlasian products. So i just think the whole strategy is really well executed. Thank so much for joining us. And listeners, you can click the link in the show notes to listen to the podcast. And our thanks to temistry for their support. All right, david, let’s dive in to this episode with raoul. Speaker 1 O, indeed so great to have you back. E wee joked ned when we were preparing a few minutes before this that you are now our a gold standard for guests that we tell all our other guests in prapido higo, listen to our episode with raoul. He is like the most thoughtfully prepared guessed ever. Sore. So excited to have you back and now adopt your play book into inquired itself. Gosh, well, i hope i live up to my own standard. Ha ha ha. Im sure you will. Such a cool topic to be talking about. T en. We’ve gone deep on gaming history in and of its own so often here on acquired, i thought a good jumping off point before we get into your specific principles that use it superhuman is let’s togavelli, what is a game? It sounds like a simple question, sometimes hard to define. There are no fewer than hone, we get here, like eight or nine definitions on wicopedia. From your perspective. Lake, how do you think about it? I like to use a definition that i came across in a book that is, by the way, the best on the topic, the art of game design by shell. (Time 0:05:00)review

What Is Fun? Summary: There’s been a tun of research into what fun actually is. It would be really hard to experience fun but not pleasure, he says. There are plenty of pleasant experiences that few people would describe as fun. So it turns out that pleasure alone misses a certain something special. Transcript: Speaker 1 And so kind of introspective interrogation can lead you to a really good definition. But you can go deeper still. So, for example, i’m fiddling with a piece of paper right now. I’m rolling it up and i’m unrolling it, just in order to keep my nervousness down. Now you could say, i’m playing with it, but it’s not a very fun toy. So you could also then observe that some toys are more fun than others. Ad then you start to get to a definition like, a game is something you play. A toy is an object you play with, but a good toy is an object that is fun to play with. And then you start to get to the heart of the matter, which is, well, what is fun anyway? And again, there’s been a tun of research into what fun actually is. Some people would say, fun is just pleasure. To them. I would say, well, can you experience fun but not pleasure? And the answer seems yet, probably not. It would be really hard to experience fun but not pleasure. I can’t think of an example where that’s the case. But the contrapositive is not true. There are plenty of pleasant experiences. Imagine, for example, the relaxing head massage that few people would describe as fun. So it turns out that pleasure alone misses a certain something special. And the thing that it misses is surprise. (Time 0:08:19)review

What Is Fun? Summary: Our brain is hard wired, in a very neuro logical sense, to enjoy surprise. A good toy is an object that is fun to play with and fun is pleasant surprise. The classic definition on this is previous acquired guessd nolan bushnell’s law. There are plenty of other things that are required in order to make a good game. Transcript: Speaker 1 But the contrapositive is not true. There are plenty of pleasant experiences. Imagine, for example, the relaxing head massage that few people would describe as fun. So it turns out that pleasure alone misses a certain something special. And the thing that it misses is surprise. It turns out that fun needs surprise. And in fact, our brain is hard wired, in a very neuro logical sense, to enjoy surprise. So wend up with this stack of definitions. A game is something you play. A good toy is an object that is fun to play with. And fun is pleasant surprise. Aha, well, perfect. That is exactly what our next question was going to be, which is a, in some ways, i think, the crux of the matter here, which is, what is a good game? Af course, the classic definition on this is previous acquired guessd nolan bushnell, fromatari bushnell’s law, that a good game is something that is easy to learn, but difficult to master. How does that fit into your stack? There’s a phrase for this, i think, that is necessary, but not sufficient. There are plenty of other things that are required in order to make a good game, and you could go so far as to list hundreds of attributes. (Time 0:09:22)review

Do You Enter a Floe State When You’re Programming? Summary: i used to race a super lagera five hundred seventy horse power, zero to sixty in less than three seconds. This is the most angrylod way that only a naturally aspirated viten would get you there. i have not been able to programm recently that much at all. Our engineers probably wouldn’t want me getting that close to the code base these days. There is a certain speed where something magical happens, a speed where you stop thinking in words, because words are too slow. And by the time you’ve had that thought, you’re already around the corner and through the next valley. Transcript: Speaker 2 I do. Speaker 1 Unfortunately, i have not been able to programm recently that much at all. Our engineers probably wouldn’t want me getting that close to the code base these days. One of the things that i always ask people to do, if they’re getting interested in this idea of game design, if they’re trying to wrap their head around flo is this notion of inspiration. What experience in your life would you most want to share with others? It’s probably very unique. Very few other people will have had access to it. And for me, it was one of those flow experiences. So, as you know, i sold my last company, reportive, to lincton. And being at lincton was an easy being acquired, so to speak, is is rather hard. And as part of my retail therapy myself, i acquired a rather special cur it was a alambrigini gado, a super lagera five hundred seventy horse power, zero to sixty in less than three seconds, although without the sort of sterile way that atesla roadster would get you there. This is the most angrylod way that only a naturally aspirated viten would get you thereou get a hang out with a yarn from what hes the naturally aspirated suprecas portes. Specifically, he is a superhuman customer, so i will drop him a line. So you can, you can imagine this car. It has gigantic air and takes at the front, a race wing at the back. Everything that could be made out of carbon was made out of carbon. And i used to race this car. These weren’t sensible races on tracks. This was madness in mountains and canyons. And there is a certain speed where something magical happens, a speed where you stop thinking in words, because words are too slow. Because by the time you’ve had that thought, you’re already around the corner and through the next valley. (Time 0:16:39)review

Do You Enter a Floe State When You’re Programming? Summary: i used to race this car. These weren’t sensible races on tracks. This was madness in mountains and canyons. There is a certain speed where you stop thinking in words, because words are too slow. By the time you’ve had that thought, you’re already around the corner and through the next valley. And there’s this is the speed where you and the car become one. The car is yu, you are the car. It’s like human in machine,. You see the landscape rip by, you hear the scream of the engine, you taste burning rubber, you can feel every imperfection. Now this is the most extreme flow i have ever experienced…this is the Transcript: Speaker 1 This is the most angrylod way that only a naturally aspirated viten would get you thereou get a hang out with a yarn from what hes the naturally aspirated suprecas portes. Specifically, he is a superhuman customer, so i will drop him a line. So you can, you can imagine this car. It has gigantic air and takes at the front, a race wing at the back. Everything that could be made out of carbon was made out of carbon. And i used to race this car. These weren’t sensible races on tracks. This was madness in mountains and canyons. And there is a certain speed where something magical happens, a speed where you stop thinking in words, because words are too slow. Because by the time you’ve had that thought, you’re already around the corner and through the next valley. And there’s this is the speed where you and the car become one. The car is yu, you are the car. It’s like human in machine, an full synchrony and a speed where every sense is at capacity, because you see the landscape rip by, you hear the scream of the engine, you taste burning rubber, you can feel every imperfection. Now this is the most extreme flow i have ever experienced, and this is the experience that i most want to share with others. (Time 0:17:45)review

The Future of Programming Summary: Programmers are the only profession in the world that gets to create their own software. No wonder our fingers dance across the keyboard like we’re playing a piano, he says. Wev wrote it ourselves. Of course it’s going to feel like an instrument. There is, in fact, a reason for this, and this was my recruiting tactic when i used to get my co founder c to join me at superhuman. Transcript: Speaker 1 There is, in fact, a reason for this, and this was my recruiting that i used to get my co founder and c to comrade irwin, who was, by the way, the first employee that we hired at reporti, to join me at superhuman. I still vividly remember this. For those of us who have lived in or visited san francisco, this took place at the local kitchen, which is a little pezarea in south of market. And we sat down and we ordered our pee, and i said to comrade, has it ever occurred to you how unfair it is that we as programmers, have the best tools in the world? And i could see the gears turning in his mind as he’s munching the pitze increasingly slowly, until his mouth grinds to a halt, and he’s like, ye and i said, well, there’s a reason for this, because we, as programmes, the only profession in the world that gets to create our own software. How unfair is that? No wonder we have the best software. No wonder our fingers dance across the keyboard like we’re playing a piano. Wev wrote it ourselves. Of course it’s going to feel like an instrument. (Time 0:20:44)review

The Future of Programming Summary: We spent nearly two years of time to figure out how to download, store an index the emale. Now you can use superhuman as a native ap rather shockingly, the browser experience is no slower than any other experience. A corpos electron forte nativewe we do use electron. Electron by itself doesn’t give you an easy way to do a full text search locally. Transcript: Speaker 1 And i can give two examples. One will be in pursuit of speed. The other was more sourtof in pursuit of beauty for the sake of beauty. We, on the speed side, had to figure out how to down load, store an index, pretty much all of your emale in the browser itself. Now you can use superhuman in the browser. You can use superhuman as a native ap rather shockingly, the browser experience is no slower than any other experience. It is, in fact, faster than any native experience. A corpos electron forte nativewe we do use electron. Now, electron by itself doesn’t solve the problem. Electron by itself doesn’t give you an easy way to do a full text search locally. And if you’re trying to get faster than gogl, one of the biggest companies of all time that has spent untold amounts of money to insure that you are more than two miles away from a server on the cdn, well, how do you do it if you’re in the browser? A server on amazon, let me tell you, isn’t going to cut it. So we had to figure out how to work our magic. And we spent, no joke, this took nearly two years of time to figure out how to download, store an index the emale (Time 0:23:10)review

The Difference Between Intrinsic and Extrinsic Motivation Summary: Game design is not gamification. It is not simply taking your duct in, adding points, levels, trophies or badgers. If that’s a game, is that not a game? Why is that craze sort of less popular than it was in years past? So what we’re really talking about here is gamification. And what we practise at superhuman, and where my passion lies, is game design. Game design is notgamification. I’m working on my transitions here. You’ like dacal, just working on it and becoming a pro hahha. There are we going? Ha, that’s soas what great easter egg to have in the product. Transcript: Speaker 1 There are we going? Ha, that’s soas what great easter egg to have in the product. Speaker 2 Arrit, speaking of easter eggs, wen to take opportunity to transition us, david, i’m working on my transitions here. You’ like dacal, just working on it and becoming a pro hahha, so, rahul, i noticed one thing that you didn’t do to try and give me floe while i’m working through my emal? Is build a reward system where i’m earning points or badges as i’m working through my emal and having a game fid experience. What is your framework to think about when that works? If that’s a game, is that not a game? Why is that craze sort of less popular than it was in years past? Speaker 1 So what we’re really talking about here is gamification. And what we practise at superhuman, and where my passion lies, is game design. Game design is not gamification. It is not simply taking your duct in, adding points, levels, trophies or badgers. (Time 0:27:47)review

The Difference Between Intrinsic and Extrinsic Motivation Transcript: Speaker 1 And the perhaps countintuit conclusion is that extrinsic motivation can actually undermine our intrinsic motivation. We can be less enthused to do a thing once for being extrinsically motivated. This is why, sometimes if you take some one who has a hobby and then you pay them to do it, they start to lose interest in the hobby. And there was a fascinating study that i think we should go into, because it really outlines this in the clearest way possible. Back in the nineteen seventies, researches from stanford, they’d recruited children. These were young kids. They were aged about three to four years old. Now the thing that made all of these kids in common is that they were generally interested in drawing. And some of these kids were told they would get a reward, a certificate with a gold seal and a ribbon. And some of these kids were not told about any reward, and so they did not expect one, or even know of one. Now, the researchers then invited all of these children into a separate room to draw for six minutes. And then afterwards, they would either get the reward or not, depending on which group they were in. And over the next few days, the children were observed to see how much they would continue to draw by themselves. Now here’s the thing, the children with no reward spent seventeen per cent of their time drawing. But the children who expected a reward, the ones who had received compensation, so to speak, they only spent eight per cent of their time drawing. In other words, the extrinsic reward had literally arved their motivation. So you can back out of this into intrinsic motivation, into extrinsic motivation. (Time 0:29:32)review

The Difference Between Intrinsic and Extrinsic Motivation Summary: Children with no reward spent seventeen per cent of their time drawing. But the children who expected a reward, so to speak, they only spent eight per cent oftheir time drawing. In other words, the extrinsic reward had literally arved their motivation. And that’s why gamification does not work. When gamefication does work, it is because the underlying experience was already a game. To go back to roonscape, when getting that next piece of lute in diablo fashion, or levelling up in world of warcraft fashion, feels good. Transcript: Speaker 1 And over the next few days, the children were observed to see how much they would continue to draw by themselves. Now here’s the thing, the children with no reward spent seventeen per cent of their time drawing. But the children who expected a reward, the ones who had received compensation, so to speak, they only spent eight per cent of their time drawing. In other words, the extrinsic reward had literally arved their motivation. So you can back out of this into intrinsic motivation, into extrinsic motivation. And the definitions are as follows. With intrinsic motivation, we do things because they are inherently interesting and satisfying. With extrinsic motivation, we do things to earn rewards and achieve external goals. And that’s the problem with rewards. They massively undermine intrinsic motivation. And that’s why gamification does not work. And when gamefication does work, it is because the underlying experience was already a game. To go back to roonscape, when getting that next piece of lute in diablo fashion, or levelling up in world of warcraft fashion, feels good. (Time 0:30:44)review

Designing for Fun Summary: “We were brought up to obsess over what users want, or over what users need. But if you think about a game, well, no one needs a game,” he says. “There are no requirements other than b fun.” Transcript: Speaker 2 So if i could sort of extrapolate this, and for founders out there listening, or pa designers or product managers who ought to work this into their own product, is it basically find the opportunities where your product naturally delights someone, or naturally makes someone feel a sense of accomplishment, and find light touch ways to just amplify that. Speaker 1 Yes. And zooming out, if what we’re trying to do is sort of tie this up into a message for product designers, for a designers, for managers, i would say this, as an industry, and i was taught this way as well, we were brought up to obsess over what users want, or over what users need. But if you think about a game, well, no one needs a game. There are no requirements other than b fun. (Time 0:32:25)review

Lemon Dot I O k, Acquired, Listeners Summary: Lemon dot i o is the perfect place for start ups to hire vedid remote developers from eastern Europe. With lemoni o, it’s much cheaper to hire engineers than with other outsourcing options. Lemonio rigorously test and interview every developer, eliminating the risk of a failed project. They have a zero risk replacement guarantee. Transcript: Speaker 2 O k, acquired, listeners, we have a new sponsor to tell you about to day on this special lemon dot i o. Now, what is lemon i o? It is the perfect place for start ups to hire vedid remote developers from eastern in our era of working remote, i, you know, can’t think of a time where this is more relevant and more common on basically every team i work with to have folks in other countries contributing to building the product. Lemon io, for folks who have dealt with different sorts of ways to out source development before, you should check out their web sight. Go to lemon dot io. Actually, slash acquired, and i’ll tll you about a little deal here at the end. You can almost just tell by the of their web sit it’s just a really, really fun brand and cool company. The best time to use lemonio is when you’re a technical co founder and just starting and need to delegate some of the work. You may need to do a specific technology or use a specific code base, but you don’t have that skill on your team, and you don’t want to just hire someone for a six week project. You may also be growing and need to add more developers to be able to just run faster. With lemoni o, it’s much cheaper to hire engineers than with other outsourcing options. The quality is also excellent. They rigorously test and interview every developer, eliminating the risk of a failed project. They have a zero risk replacement guarantee. They match you with the best candidate within twenty four hours. So it’s a super quick, painless process. Of course, my favorite thing about lemon and any of the other sponsors on the show they are of the acquired community. So we had some one reach out because they’re a listener to the show, they’re just like you, and they they like hearing about company stories. So here’s the deal, if you want a fifteen per cent discount for the first six weeks of work for all acquired listeners, you can go to lemon dot i o slash acquired to claim the offer. (Time 0:38:05)review

How Do You Know If You’re a Product Owner? Transcript: Speaker 2 There’s something that’s hat’s been like noodling in my mind last couple of minutes as you’ve been talking. And my question is, like, being someone who thinks so deeply about all these very nuanced emotions as you are designing the product, does it translate to your personal life? Like, do you notice yourself as a human by studying this stuff, that you are more aware of your nuanced emotions? Or are they totally separate? And this is more of an analytical skill verses something that would just sort of naturally start happening to you as a person? Speaker 1 It’s funny you should mention that, because, yes, it does definitely help in personal relationships, whether those are happening at work or at home. One of the things that i strongly advise any founder to go through is conflict training, or training on how to give feed bulk, or how to give dificult feedback, or how to receive difficult feedback. And for customers ore superhuman, i have recently sent out a news letter just how to do this. One of the things that i focus really hard on is separating the objective description of the behaviour upon which i’m trying to give feedback. (Time 0:44:32)review