Austin Kleon on Writing, Creativity and the Importance of Idleness
Metadata
- Author: Not Overthinking
- Full Title: Austin Kleon on Writing, Creativity and the Importance of Idleness
- URL: https://www.airr.io/episode/5fa968fde59866046ac2782c
Highlights
Speaker 0: to be down here. Now, one of the peers of the beginner that’s just gotten up to this point still remembers Mawr what it was like to be down here. And so they consort of speak to that beginner better in some ways than the expert. That’s up here because they understand where that beginner is coming from. I am how C s Lewis put it. Is he said that fellow schoolboys, it’s gender. But you know, fellow students can teach fellow students Justus effectively as the teacher because they’ve only just mastered the thing that they’ve learned and they can communicate it. And so that really set me free. Once I once I sort of took in that, (Time 0:09:58)review
Speaker 0: of the beginner that’s just gotten up to this point still remembers Mawr what it was like to be down here. And so they consort of speak to that beginner better in some ways than the expert. That’s up here because they understand where that beginner is coming from. I am how C s Lewis put it. Is he said that fellow schoolboys, it’s gender. But you know, fellow students can teach fellow students Justus effectively as the teacher because they’ve only just mastered the thing that they’ve learned and they can communicate it. And so that really set me free. Once I once I sort of took in that, um, it’s really an ethos, you know, it’s almost (Time 0:10:02)review
Speaker 0: gotten up to this point still remembers Mawr what it was like to be down here. And so they consort of speak to that beginner better in some ways than the expert. That’s up here because they understand where that beginner is coming from. I am how C s Lewis put it. Is he said that fellow schoolboys, it’s gender. But you know, fellow students can teach fellow students Justus effectively as the teacher because they’ve only just mastered the thing that they’ve learned and they can communicate it. And so that really set me free. Once I once I sort of took in that, um, it’s really an ethos, you know, it’s almost it’s sort of punk rock. In a way. It’s almost (Time 0:10:04)review
Speaker 0: doctor copper. You know, that kind of thing. Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Like that’s the exact out of shit I have. Whenever I’m doing videos, it’s It’s never that I am the expert teaching you how to do the thing. It’s more like, you know, I’m just one of the people, man. I read Austin clear in the book and he said, This thing that I’m learning along the way and therefore I started my blogging my YouTube channel, and, you know, this is kind of fun to join me along the way on, I found that when I when I dig down into the analytics, my videos that have performed by far the best are the ones that start with the phrase how I do something rather than how to do something. Um, had a video Speaker 0: really cool. Yeah, I was really cool. Speaker 1: I had a video recently called. How I type really fast on that went viral has got, like, three million views on. I know if I’d called it how to type (Time 0:13:03)review
Speaker 0: kids hate being told what to do. They hate when I’m, like, who? Watch this. You know, there, there they are resistant to teaching. Um and I don’t know if that’s just because I’m a terrible teacher or what What they love is to just for me to do something and for them toe look, And then for me to give them the space, then to do their own thing. And so it sounds like with your videos, that’s what you’re doing, right? You’re like, this is how I’m doing this thing. And then people feel like Okay, well, maybe I could try that, but that’s how he does it. So how will I do it? Right, So it just I feel like you’re so much of teaching and building an audience. And really creating a community is about, you know, (Time 0:14:58)review
Speaker 0: you know, showing people what you’ve learned, but also giving them the space to make their own, like adjustment. You know what I mean? The space for them to be creative to. And I think the really great teachers. And I’m sure you found this with your videos. People talk back to you and they’re like You’ll learn so much from them, right? Because that because that’s really the thing that I think about sharing what you’re learning. Even if someone tells you you’re an idiot, there is usually something you can learn how that interaction. And they’re like, Well, you’re I remember like I do these things called newspaper blackout poems where I taken article from the newspaper and I black out most of it, and there’s just, like a few words behind (Time 0:15:41)review
Speaker 0: I discovered Tom Phillips that I was like, Okay, well, I’m gonna find out everything there is to know about Tom’s work. And then I’m gonna find out everything to know about the people who inspired his work, right? So, like even negative feedback. In a sense, if you could take it in the correct way, you it’s just are you gonna learn from it? Right? And so and you know, it’s a big But when you share you, you people share back and return. And it’s like Christopher Hitchens said that having a book out in the world, it’s like having a free education that goes on for a lifetime, you know, because it’s just like you put things out into the world. And then they things come back at you, and it’s just this big. You know this perpetual cycle? Basically, Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, There’s so much (Time 0:17:20)review
Speaker 0: sort of daily project, even if it’s like I post one thing to instagram every day or, you know, just something little like that, having something that you have to do every day you find out it’s not that you have something to say. It’s that you find out what you have to say. So that’s so like writing every day. Some people say, Oh, you must have so much to say because you write every day and like actually it’s the opposite. I have more to say because I sit down and write every day and I figure out what I’m thinking and what it actually is that I have to say. So writing is actually not just a way of communicating with the world. It’s actually a way of communicating with yourself because the simple act of sitting down in front of a keyboard (Time 0:22:43)review
Speaker 0: something that you have to do every day you find out it’s not that you have something to say. It’s that you find out what you have to say. So that’s so like writing every day. Some people say, Oh, you must have so much to say because you write every day and like actually it’s the opposite. I have more to say because I sit down and write every day and I figure out what I’m thinking and what it actually is that I have to say. So writing is actually not just a way of communicating with the world. It’s actually a way of communicating with yourself because the simple act of sitting down in front of a keyboard for 45 minutes or pulling out your notebook for a half hour, whatever it is, you are creating space in the day for (Time 0:22:52)review
Speaker 1: everyone kind of says that you need to have this daily writing practice on. It’s something that for me has always sort of gone by the wayside because there is always it always feels like there is something that is important and urgent rather than writing, which is important and non urgent. Actually, just before, just before speaking to you, I was having a call with this, uh, productivity coach because I thought, Hey, why not? Let’s see if this will be good. And the thing we realized is that I just need to carve out an hour every morning and just have that as like, my power hour and just just kind of right in that time on. One thing that you just said now is like, Do Speaker 0: you think it Speaker 1: would be worth just like publishing it on my block under underneath, like my daily journal thing and then maybe just (Time 0:25:22)review
Speaker 0: that, like you, sort of get into it, you know, and just have that routine of writing because, man, there’s always something more interesting to do than right. I mean, they’re like putting air in the tires, like cleaning out your closet or rearranging your books or, you know, doing your taxes. My taxes Never. I’m working on a book. My taxes get done like so quickly It’s always something you’d rather do than right. It’s even the great writers, you know? I mean, there are some writers that you know they love it and they’re really good at. But you know David Rakoff, you know, he said, I’ll try to tone this down for YouTube But he (Time 0:30:38)review
Speaker 0: all day working, first of all, I’m a terrible dad, a terrible spouse friend. I just I’m maniac. But then it’s really hard to come down. And if you don’t come down, you know there. I really believe in sleep and the process of I think when you sleep, your brain figures out the problems you had the morning before, so I mean, I will always sleep on a manuscript, and often the problem I have you know, one day after a good night’s sleep, it gets fixed the next day. Eso I just think little, I really believe in smaller chunks of work over longer periods of time. Okay. Yeah. Then big first. Yeah. (Time 0:32:46)
Speaker 0: hard to come down. And if you don’t come down, you know there. I really believe in sleep and the process of I think when you sleep, your brain figures out the problems you had the morning before, so I mean, I will always sleep on a manuscript, and often the problem I have you know, one day after a good night’s sleep, it gets fixed the next day. Eso I just think little, I really believe in smaller chunks of work over longer periods of time. Okay. Yeah. Then big first. Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah, because I’ve been I’ve been recently very tempted to do that. Hey, I’m going to go thio Airbnb in the woods and sit down for Speaker 0: a week. (Time 0:32:53)review
Speaker 0: I always think about the search versus the feed and, you know, feed to me. Sounds like a pig at a trough, you know, like you just show up and they just shovel the stuff. You know, where is the searches like searches, mystical searches more like searches more self motivated. And you’re putting your tentacles out into the universe. And so I guess my advice to people is to make sure that you’re not being fed your interests like and you’re actually searching for your interest. And I think one way to do it is to just think about what you wanted to be when you’re you. Were we in small? As Alistair Gray says, You know (Time 0:55:13)review
Speaker 0: you’re in, does that make sense? So it’s like, you know, you love you love punk rock. You love the Clash. But like that was a moment in time. You can’t just be the clash. You’ve gotta, like, do what the clash did. But in your own space, you know? So you have to do a little bit of this, this work of figuring out what you really love about your heroes because I do think that were brought to our work by the work of others. I think that we’re you know, we’re sort of that’s That’s how we show up to our own work is that were inspired by the work of others, and that makes us want to do that work. But then you have to update it for your own context, you know? And I think that’s the That’s the That’s the rial artfulness of it. Speaker 1: Yeah, (Time 1:01:27)review
Speaker 0: that if you look to the natural world, the natural world supplies you with the metaphors that you really need to feel like a whole person. Because plants go dormant in the winter, animals hibernate. In spring, all the work gets done or the, you know things blossom. And then in the fall they’re harvested. You know, the thing idea that there are seasons and that there are periods of of frantic activity. And then there’s periods of dormancy. And knowing what Susan you’re in and and letting it do its work and doing the work appropriate to the season that was, that was, you know, the great that was the great theme of Throw is toe. Know what season you’re in and and live accordingly. (Time 1:09:02)review
Speaker 0: I just thought, This guy is like he’s like overeducated. He really loves plants. He’s upset about the government. He, like, lives with his parents. I’m like he’s a millennial like doing is like a millennial. He can completely like everyone in my generation should be reading this guy? Eso Yeah, I always think swimming upstream, going to the original source. Reading the material for yourself is always a valuable thing, no matter who you are on what? Speaker 1: Yeah, that’s really interesting. This is something I’m trying to sort of make more more of an active effort to do because ah, lot of the stuff that I read is like it feels very contemporary and very (Time 1:14:01)review
Speaker 1: called Patrick McKenzie, who I thought I just follow on how can use. He had this thing where hey lives in Tokyo and now works at stripe. But he had This has this thing on his website where he’s like if you’re passing through Tokyo and you wanna talk software hit me up and I will buy you a coffee, no questions asked. I just thought that it’s such a nice thing to do, so now what I do is that I have on my website. Hey, if you email me coffee at ali abdullah dot com, we could we could hang out. And so every Tuesday I just hang out in Cambridge Town Center in the same coffee shop, and people just come and have a chat. It’s Speaker 0: always like, Wow, that’s cool. Yeah, I’m essentially just like, No, I don’t I can’t. I Look, I can’t meet with you, man. Speaker 1: You a eight year old? You got a five year old, You got a family. Speaker 0: I’m hoping that, like, you know, I’m hoping that I can. (Time 1:25:02)review
Speaker 0: out of all this, it’s still that, like when someone I respect is like links to a block post of mine, it’s still just like Oh my God, you know, like we’re like, we’re appears now and that still is the best thing for me is just that. Now I have all these people that care about the same. I’m in touch with all these people that care about the same stuff that I dio, and that is still that, you know, that’s all I ever wanted when I was younger, it’s all I wanted and now I have it, and then it’s like, What do you do now? Well, you grow that, you know, you grow that circle of people care, right? It’s like well, you, (Time 1:22:54)review
Speaker 1: I was falling into as my YouTube channel has gotten bigger. My bar for what I’m allowed to make a video about has gone higher and higher. What I sort of the perceived quality. I know that this is bad on. The thing I always tell people is, you know this pottery class example, or for example, I like the phrase that when it comes to YouTube being your 1st 100 videos are gonna be crap anyway, So just get those done, and then you could worry about improving. But But obviously, you know, what I don’t tell people is in the process of being on the 100 videos you actually get really good on. You enjoy the process, and you might even get some viral hits. But you know, that kind of vibe. And so what I’ve been trying to actively do is reduce my quality bar for putting something up as a YouTube video on. But one thing I was I was I was really toying with was this idea (Time 1:40:13)review
Speaker 1: for what I’m allowed to make a video about has gone higher and higher. What I sort of the perceived quality. I know that this is bad on. The thing I always tell people is, you know this pottery class example, or for example, I like the phrase that when it comes to YouTube being your 1st 100 videos are gonna be crap anyway, So just get those done, and then you could worry about improving. But But obviously, you know, what I don’t tell people is in the process of being on the 100 videos you actually get really good on. You enjoy the process, and you might even get some viral hits. But you know, that kind of vibe. And so what I’ve been trying to actively do is reduce my quality bar for putting something up as a YouTube video on. But one thing I was I was I was really toying with was this idea of, ah 100 videos In 100 days on, I was gonna do it for the final 100 days for 2020 (Time 1:40:17)review
Speaker 1: like the phrase that when it comes to YouTube being your 1st 100 videos are gonna be crap anyway, So just get those done, and then you could worry about improving. But But obviously, you know, what I don’t tell people is in the process of being on the 100 videos you actually get really good on. You enjoy the process, and you might even get some viral hits. But you know, that kind of vibe. And so what I’ve been trying to actively do is reduce my quality bar for putting something up as a YouTube video on. But one thing I was I was I was really toying with was this idea of, ah 100 videos In 100 days on, I was gonna do it for the final 100 days for 2020 on. Then various things happened, and I was like, Okay, we’ll do this another time, but I really like the idea of doing that sort of thing to just I sort of have that as a reset of like Okay, yes, I’m a million subscribers, but that’s that’s, (Time 1:40:28)review
Speaker 0: uh, make your mark. You gotta make your mark on the world. Or, you know, Steve Jobs used to say, uh, you know, put a dent in the universe or Facebook, you know, move fast and break things. And it’s like, Dude, these air, all vandalism metaphors like this is all and so that, you know, I was thinking about medicine and I started thinking, like First do no harm right or you go to a park and it’s like, leave it better than you found it, you know, like there are all these different metaphors that maybe we’re not thinking about creative work in the right, you know, and and and it turns out there in plain sight, right, because, you know, you mentioned quilting earlier. I’ve got I’ve gotten really into quilting and not (Time 1:57:08)review